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hmurchison
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The Education gap between black men and women
It is well known that black women are attending college in far greater numbers than black males. I believe this is causing a lot of issues between the us and for the wrong reasons.

I'm currently in the process of obtaining my BA. My girlfriend has just completed a 3yr Masters program as of last year. Education to both of us is important but for differing reasons. I've always felt that Education, whether it be via trade school or Higher Ed or apprenticeship, is merely the means to and end. The end game here is gainfull employments and the ability to chase financial freedom. I have NEVER attached my self worth to education. My girlfriend on the other hand comes dangerously close to doing just that. She says there's "Prestige" in a Masters or PH.D degree. The letters after your name mean something. In some ways I can see that. Obtaining an advanced degree is impressive. Where we disagree about is whether than makes someone intelligent or not.

I believe intelligence is inate in the individual. I do not believe that it follows gender or racial lines. I do not believe going to school makes you more intelligent but rather it exposes you to a variety of subjects in which you may take and interest in a particular subject and fulfill your potential. The common fallacy is that colleges are different and that you can receive a better education at an Ivy League school. A Professor cannot teach you. They can only motivate you to learn the curriculum. This is an important distinction. If it is truly "I" that holds the key to unlocking my potential. If it is I that truly does the learning then basically school is just an institution that bears witness to your educational journey. Exclusive schools are there for networking. You don't learn anything more at Harvard than you do at Community College. It's WHO you learn with. At Harvard you're learning with the sons and daughters of the aflluent. Lifelong friendships here will translate into better job opportunities later is the hope.

No here is the rub between black men and women. A man typically looks for a good woman first and foremost as a potential wife. Is she capable of being a loving and loyal wife and mother. These take precedent over things like earning potential for many men. When you reverse the situation you run into the dichotomy that is killing black relationships. A woman does not think about whether a man has the attributes of being a loving husband and father before his earning potential. In fact if he is stellar in the loving and character department yet have a cloudy future for earning potential he'll require a lot of justification so as to not appear as man an educated woman would "Date Down" for.

We're are now seeing a deluge of movies in which the educated black woman finds true love but he is not of her social class (Daddy's Little Girl by Tyler Perry) or he is that and white (Something New). Both movies will be rife with the conflict. It's silly. A happy marriage extends the length and quality of your life. If you could do something that would extend your life by 5-10 years would you? What cost would it be worth to you?

I implore black women and black men alike to find your soulmate. Do not worthship false Gods like Diplomas and Avarice. A unified couple can make amazing things happen. Don't let the best thing in life slip by because you get caught up in this trap. There is little correlation between the smartest people I personally know and formal educations. I hate to see black women falling into this myth that Dating Down is something to be embarassed about. Having a poor marriage and knowing you made the wrong decision is something to be far more embarrased by. If we learn anything from formal education is should be to utilize what humans excel in over any other creature on the planet...our ability to reason. You should know if that man is in your corner from his actions. Diplomas aren't a substitute for character. God Bless.
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2/9/2007 15:41 Link - Ip: Logged - Quote:
detroitchild
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AMEN TO THAT! And to add my two cents...don't let society define what love is for YOU! As a brotha with a degree, I've learned that the more I learn the less I realize I know. Some of the most asinine people I know have degrees up the wazoo while some of the most intellegent, wonderful people I've met did not get a "Formal" education.

Judge each on his/her own merits and character.
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2/12/2007 10:53 Link - Ip: Logged - Quote:
VickanS
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Quote:
She says there's "Prestige" in a Masters or PH.D degree.

The only prestige I can think of lies within the person holding the degree, which is not a bad thing altogether. If a person thinks theyre beautiful, smart, personable, etc. then it may inspire them to be the best at it. This can be good for self-esteem.

I think the problems come in when society says: "Go to an Ivy League school and you'll be prestigious. Go to some other school, and you'll be wasting your time." This is a ridiculous assumption based on history and finances. Just because someone has the grades and finances to make it in an Ivy League school, doesn't mean theyre any smarter or "better" than anyone else.


Quote:
Where we disagree about is whether than makes someone intelligent or not


No offense, but I would disagree with your girlfriend too. College only exposes you to things and it doesn't matter what college it is. Your potential for greatness lies within and no degree is going to surpass that.

As for the gap between black men and women, it can be noticeable sometimes. A lot of sistas get degrees, get a little money, and think they own the world. There is nothing wrong with have a positive attitude about life, love, and career, but good old fashioned relationships require more than just money and prestige.

2/16/2007 11:31 Link - Ip: Logged - Quote:
Kristimistic
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Tru Dat!
Having a degree is a wonderful accomplishment for self. But it doesn't mean a whole lot when you're just trying to meet and greet, to see what could possibly be, you feel me? I have a Master's, and unless I'm asked specifically if I attended college, I don't mention it! LOL! I don't want any preconceived notions about me, just because I have a degree.

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3/26/2007 18:32 Link - Ip: Logged - Quote:
magicwanda
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Think about the children! I am sure that we all agree that Black children are born disadvantaged just because they are Black.With that said,should we be encouraging sistas to marry and mate with brothas that cannot properly provide for their children? Why should any woman have kids with a man who cannot educatate them,put them in a home that is not in the "hood", get excellent health care benefits,or expose them to an enviroment that is positive and safe?I was once watching the animal planet.There was a certain type of male bird that made a nest.When he was finished,he would begin to make mating calls to the female.She would fly by to inspect his nest.If the nest was not up to her standards,she would keep flying.With that said,if a bird has high standards and expectations,shouldn't we? She is looking out for the well being of her off springs.Since this site is about helping Black men,consider this : a lot of Black men would be spared a life of hell,if their mother was more selective in choosing a father for them.Lots of Black peoples's problems would diminish if sistas would just raise the bar of expectations and standards.We should not encourage educated sistas to "step back"(yes I used that term!) and get with men who have little to offer them or the kids.Now before you brothas get all hot under the collar,ask yourself this:If you spent six figures to educate your daughter,would you be dissapointed if she went to the hood,found a "rat " and brought him home to meet you?Would youi like for your daughter to marry a man who can't pay at least half of the bills?Well guess what? all sistas are somebodys'daughter and we want what you would want for your own!
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Magic Wanda
6/30/2007 15:46 Link - Ip: Logged - Quote:
VickanS
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Quote:
Why should any woman have kids with a man who cannot educatate them,put them in a home that is not in the "hood", get excellent health care benefits,or expose them to an enviroment that is positive and safe?


Amen, sista!
7/4/2007 14:44 Link - Ip: Logged - Quote:
vance87
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I really find it borderline hilarious that this so called education gap gets played up as much as it does. Lets make one thing clear. The overwhelming majority of black women in this country are not these education/professional mavericks. This point is not being made in jest or to discredit said accomplishments, but to clarify reality versus embellishment. For the past 30 years the statistical face for poverty in both urban and poor rural areas has been black women (and the children in these homes). I think what often goes unmentioned -and intentionally so- is the direct correlation between the spike in college enrollments, graduation rates, social intervention programs and outreach, and PURGING of welfare rolls. This intervention specifically targeted black women. Affirmative action also overwhelmingly benefits black women. They satisfy both and racial and gender quota. These points are conspicuously missing when the sisters do their chest thumping. The tone is often at the expense of the brothers who don't get half the intervention and have been the primary target of a racist system that has a long history of undermining black stability and prosperity.

I am not offering an excuse or blaming anyone or agency for self destructive behavior from brothers. There is more than enough self-reflection and correction that needs to take place. Successful sisters should be encouraged and congratulated. But to keep having dialog along the lines of the thread title is extremely disingenuous.

Black women need to stop hiding behind inflated prosperity numbers. Having an advanced degree and high earning potential doesn't necessarily make you a better mate. This is another distortion that this dysfunctional society has SOCIALIZED most to believe. Money and education are indeed valuable no doubt; but they can't buy you CHARACTER. Lastly, these attributes are more important to woman than men (IMHO). Most men I feel don't need or desire a female to provide financial stability. Men and women have been socialized to value different things in a mate. Right or wrong, sisters need to take a long look at themselves and ask why are there just as many single viable brothers complaining about viable good mates, especially if the numbers are so skewed in our favor. They also need to answer how come these so called screwed up brothers have no problem entering in interracial unions with women who male counterparts i.e. white/asian have far more education and earning potential. Our problem is with our own women. Enough nonsense with fiction like this thread title, and real honest talk needs to happen.
7/24/2007 15:55 Link - Ip: Logged - Quote:
gwil06
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The education gap between black men and black women is not a topic that will have the right answer or that men and women will agree on. I have been wondering about this in the last few weeks and noticed that the media and society have bridged this gap to divide and conquer the black race. I believe that there aren't enough reading material for young black men to keep up with the black women which therefore spreads this so called gap even further apart. Now I don't want all of us thinking that black men don't read, we just don't read enough. I was told a long time ago that "leaders are readers", and the way I see it is we must tap into what drives a young black man to read. When you read, it opens the mind to everything imaginable from the sciences to traveling the safari. My six year old son loves watching the CBS show Numbers. He asked me if numbers can actually affect what happens to a person. I told him what I was told as a kid, "Numbers don't lie." Now he's more interested in how numbers work in society. One day he may become a CPA, Financial Adviser or a chemist.

Now back to the subject.

Young black women read all the time. There are magazines and books out there specifically for young black women. Name me one positive magazine that is on the newsstands for young black men.

The education gap between black men and black women can be closed if we stop trying to turn our sons into athletes. We churn the dreams of the NBA and NFL into our childrens lives to a point where education come second. I have seen it and have lived it. We need to churn in their heads and lives the value of not only a good education but getting a great education and doing something great with it.
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10/19/2007 12:21 Link - Ip: Logged - Quote:
brian07
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Your more likely to see a black women going to college, and a black man going to jail. I feel the reason for this is, black women have mothers to teach them morals, woman relate to woman, as to male relate to males. How can a black woman raise a black boy to be a man without a father figure in his life to guide him the way. 70% of black mothers are single. Most these young black dudes join gangs, and live life on the streets because the "OGs" on the streets telling them that the "high" life is the way to live. Thats all most young black men know how to do is to live the "high" life. It's all in the media, tv, etc..Most brothas dont want to apply themselves. Sistas in college are more likely to IR date, because they feel there too good for the average brotha. If they date a brotha, the brotha has to earn more then she earns. I've seen plenty of situations when an average brotha walks up to one of these sistas with the college degree, and the sistas immediately turns him down. Just the way of this generation.
11/8/2007 17:48 Link - Ip: Logged - Quote:
mayfieldga
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rick lynn
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904-771-0687
5012 Seaboard Ave.
Jacksonville, FL 32210
http://learningtheory.homestead.com/Theory.html

I feel the values of hard work that work in the more physically oriented world "that are hammered into the many Black and other minority children do not work well for thinking and learning in the information age.

I feel our current medical or genetic model of learning that was designed to create stagnation is hurting minorities and especially Black Males for they face the most confrontations while growing up. By understanding how our individual environments and treatment greatly affect ability over time, we can then both explain the Male Crisis and help reduce this growing problem. What the person may not realize is how Males and Females are treated over time beginning from early infancy is creating much more protection and stabiilty for Females and in turn mental/emotional growth over time. For Males the aggression they receive from infancy and grows as they age creates higher mental frictions that greatly hinder mental/emotional growth over time.

Our current teachings of fixed intelligences are creating permanent stagnation for many working class families and parents who would like to help their children but do not have the tools to help. This is creating much frustration for parents, especially for minority families. This is leaving out many environmental variables needed to help students and adults change and improve their lives. I feel our individual environments do greatly affect thinking, learning, and development of skills over time. I hope my theory will help provide the tools parents need to help their children.

I have developed a learning theory with many applications. I hope it will provide many applications for improving learning, motivation to learn, and also mental and emotional heath for students and adults. This theory uses two large variables. I hope you will see as I do its many applications for society.

The first variable: I believe stress can be redefined as layers of mental frictions. This shows us how our individual environments greatly affect our ability to learn and have good mental/emotional health. By redefining stress as mental frictions we now have a way to begin more permanently reducing layers of mental frictions to continually improve learning, motivation or love of learning, and mental/emotional health. This provides everyone with a way to continually improve their lives. This will release students from our current, more permanent models of learning.

The second variable: I believe incorrect pace and intensity in approaching mental work, including academics works against us. As we approach a mental work or academic subject by trying too hard, we create much more mental friction that hurts our learning, and motivation to learn. We can learn and teach students how to begin approaching new things or new academics more slowly even very slowly at first. As we learn more, our pace and intensity will increase naturally and get faster on its own. This is important for long-term motivation to learn and continue loving the learning process

I feel both of these tools are very necessary to accumulate more knowledge, skills and more complex thinking and more complex knowledge and skills over time. These two tools could create much improvement in “long-term” student and adult learning and motivation to learn over time or years. These tools could make a world of difference for many students.

In addition, as layers of mental frictions accumulate, they may create two bad things at once. They can create psychological suffering and also a much shorter reflection time. This can lead to many escapes from overeating and overshopping to drug/alcohol abuse, violence, depression, and suicide. By teaching students and adults how to use these tools to more permanently reduce layers of mental frictions, we have a way to help reduce those problems for students and adults. This could help save help save many lives in the future. My complete theory, although 6 years old, can be read from my home site or my newest version will go to all on request at mayfieldga@bellsouth.net Feel free to make copies of all files. rick lynn

2/23/2008 17:07 Link - Ip: Logged - Quote:
Forum Start > Relationships > Dating > The Education gap between black men and women

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